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PostPosted: November 29th, 2017, 1:18 pm 
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on this "recruiting" front---not too long ago, some people from O'Gorman came after my best friends kid (who are not Catholic, btw). no, they didn't offer the parents money, but, they did try really hard at talking them into enrolling at O'Gorman. i guess if you call that "recruiting"---O'Gorman does it too. at the time, i believe the kid was either in 7th or 8th grade.


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PostPosted: November 29th, 2017, 4:16 pm 
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basketcase wrote:
on this "recruiting" front---not too long ago, some people from O'Gorman came after my best friends kid (who are not Catholic, btw). no, they didn't offer the parents money, but, they did try really hard at talking them into enrolling at O'Gorman. i guess if you call that "recruiting"---O'Gorman does it too. at the time, i believe the kid was either in 7th or 8th grade.


Given the open enrollment situation, you don't think the Washington/Lincoln/Brandon/Harrisburg/Roosevelt coaches ever tell middle school students they'd be welcome to attend their schools? Were the "people from O'Gorman" actual faculty members or just families with kids at O'Gorman? What coach at any school wouldn't want a talented middle school kid to come play for them?

So far as I know it's not a requirement to be Catholic at O'Gorman or any other Catholic school. A significant percentage of students at both O'Gorman and STM are not Catholic; probably close to a third of STM students.

STM lost their top volleyball player to Stevens last year, and a couple of talented track athletes the year prior. They were welcomed with open arms by the Stevens coaches. No question that was the right thing for those coaches to do, but under the definition that many of you employ, that qualifies as recruiting. (Oddly enough, there's no outrage expressed by any on this forum.) Is it unethical for school officials to put their best foot forward and show some pride in what their school has to offer? I'd think we'd all expect our school faculty members to do just that.

Sure would be great to get back to the original topic of which teams will be tough in the upcoming season.


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PostPosted: November 29th, 2017, 6:18 pm 
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Our kids are all Protestant and attended a Catholic school. They received a great education in a very friendly atmosphere. Actually our family was invited to move to another area by a public school because our kids were good athletes. This "recruiting" can and does work both ways. The quality of any school can make that school more or less inviting for kids to attend. What parents wouldn't admit that some private/parochial schools may offer some different opportunities that public schools may not offer or vice versa?


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PostPosted: November 29th, 2017, 6:33 pm 
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What I think alot of people don't understand is that many opposing coaches are friends away from the court/field. I doubt many, if any, actively seek out the really good athletes and try to convince them to come to their school. I think what happens most times is that a parent or athlete gets frustrated and looks to go somewhere else. Many times they tour several schools. What coach wouldn't put their best foot forward and try to sell their school and program? I think many folks have this idea that the coach is having secret meetings with parents and athletes to recruit them. Instead it is knowledge of the coach from camps and summer programs as well as the reputation of the school and program that attracts the athlete to a different school. I'm sure there are exceptions, but I just think most coaches have enough respect for each other as to not actively seek out an athlete. I've talked to several coaches who will call the coach at another school to let them know that their athlete is shopping around. Parents may not like to hear that, but those coaches are in the sport for the long haul and they have to look out for one another. The parents are involved for 3 or 4 years, most coaches are there for 20 or more. Pisssing off a bunch of your peers over one athlete will make for a miserable career.


Your opponent probably understands you and how hard you have worked better than anyone. Your opponent is not your enemy that needs to be hated or humiliated. Celebrate with your teammates, not against your opponents. A worthy opponent is necessary for us to be tested and to reach our best. Without an opponent, there is no competition.


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PostPosted: November 30th, 2017, 8:18 am 
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Sorry STM, you don't get a pass on this one. But to think that it's just STM, SFC, ARoncalli, OG recruiting is absurd. Not that everyone does it, but it happens in lots of places, private, public, the Rez, small schools . . . it's the parent who says "hey we have open gym on Monday nights, bring your kids and let's see how they fit." Or, "we're going to this camp, you should come." Or, "we really need someone to play low post on our team." I don't think we can regulate what parents say to each other, nor should we.


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PostPosted: November 30th, 2017, 8:27 am 
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"If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." The rich get richer. It's sad, but that is the mentality of the athletes and parents we are talking about. And they are everywhere.


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PostPosted: November 30th, 2017, 10:55 am 
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Not familiar with the other three schools accused, but I'd be interested to hear some specific examples of the "absurd" recruiting committed by STM. The stories of "I know a guy whose neighbor's brother's boss's fifth-grader got recruited by..." are a little weak. Please provide the name of the guilty athlete, the year the crime was committed, the faculty perpetrator involved, and the obscene incentive offered by the school. It's also fairly important to know if the school first contacted the family or it was the other way around.

I mentioned the three STM athletes who were welcomed at Stevens over the past two years. They were even offered (gasp) free tuition! O'Gorman, STM, Roncalli, and SFC have never stooped to that level! Why do none of the forum's conspiracy theorists take issue with students transferring to public schools? Kids move back and forth between Stevens and Central every year, but we never hear a peep about it. Douglas has athletes transferring in and out on an annual basis, but again, no comments on this forum. Hill City's top girls player will suit up for Custer this year, but the only sound is that of crickets chirping. I have no problem with any of that - kids move around! Families relocate, a kid is uncomfortable at their original school for some reason, etc. Sure seems like the parochial schools get criticized for situations that fail to raise eyebrows anywhere else.


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PostPosted: November 30th, 2017, 2:13 pm 
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No one is gonna make a stink about a volleyball player and a couple track athletes transferring to a AA school in RC. Except for maybe you. Kudos to them for taking on the best competition the state has to offer in their respective sports. The path to fame doesn't come quite as easily when you transfer "up". And unless the girl from Hill City can lead Custer to a State Championship and then head off to play at the U. Of Utah, I don't think anybody will make a stink about that either. Maybe your a little too close to this.


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PostPosted: November 30th, 2017, 3:47 pm 
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Apparently no one's going to make a stink about any transferring unless a Christian school is involved.

Gylten attended STM for all four high school years, as will her three siblings. Her parents will be the first to tell you that they approached STM, not the other way around. I suppose the coach at your school would have forbid her to join his team? (Please, please, answer that....) The family lives in Rapid a few blocks from STM. Both parents employed in Rapid. If she'd have chosen Stevens you'd have had no issue with it. Dru is a quality kid all the way around and your insinuation that she was involved in anything unethical is classless. If that's your best shot at providing a legitimate example of recruiting by STM, it's a swing and a miss.

Interesting but not surprising that you declined to answer if the kids who go back and forth between Stevens and Central, or Douglas and other schools, are also indications of illicit recruiting. FWIW, rather than "making a stink" about it, I stated that the Stevens coaches did the right thing in welcoming them. You must have missed that. In the interest of consistency, if it's acceptable for some kids to transfer, it's acceptable for all. Not sure how you can justify holding certain schools to a different standard.

Laughable that it's somehow an act of courage to transfer up a class, but insidiously evil to transfer to a parochial school. STM schedules as many AA teams as they can, including Washington and O'Gorman last year. Not a very good strategy if they're trying to avoid "the best competition the state has to offer".

I am indeed close to this issue. I watch the STM kids work hard and make sacrifices in order to accomplish what they have, so it's tough to listen to others discredit them. What's your incentive to get involved? Almost sounds as if you have an ulterior motive of some type. It can't simply be that they're successful, because they're no more successful than Washington or Madison's football programs, Sully Buttes or Ethan's girl's basketball programs, Stevens' stellar track teams, or any number of other SD high school teams with winning traditions. It must be something else that drives you to insult a group of hard-working young women. Hmmm, what could that be?

How about letting us know which high school you represent so we can go back through the records to make sure no student ever transferred there after seventh grade?


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PostPosted: November 30th, 2017, 5:01 pm 
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C'mon man, I didn't say half of the stuff you accused me of. You're getting us all mixed together. I'm going to leave it at this. Championships bring scrutiny. You draw from a population of around 80,000. You could get away with a 8 person rotation. You don't play in the highest class in the state. Play AA and a great deal of this would go away. A lot of other kids work hard and make sacrifices.


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PostPosted: November 30th, 2017, 5:17 pm 
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Lots of passion on the recruiting topic.

My take is it's allowed and done in a lot of places. No sense getting too wrapped up about it. I do know it's hard on the kids when a teammate/friend leaves or even contemplates it. You may have been playing together and imagining big things together since grade school. It must feel like a pretty big betrayal to those left behind. I'd hope some strong consideration went into the decision-making process but people do things for their own reasons and who's to say they're wrong for it?

Another factor at play - bigger schools really can't stand to get beat by smaller schools. There's always someone looking to make excuses as to why that happens and the excuse is rarely favorable to the smaller school. It can't be hard work or talent, has to be something nefarious going on.

So again - back to original topic - when are the pre-season girls bball rankings out? Anyone who is in the know care to take an informal shot at the AA rankings?


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PostPosted: November 30th, 2017, 11:15 pm 
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gruper19 wrote:
C'mon man, I didn't say half of the stuff you accused me of. You're getting us all mixed together. I'm going to leave it at this. Championships bring scrutiny. You draw from a population of around 80,000. You could get away with a 8 person rotation. You don't play in the highest class in the state. Play AA and a great deal of this would go away. A lot of other kids work hard and make sacrifices.


We have 275 students in high school, no surprise we are an A school. We don't get to cherry pick from 80,000. Simple truth is that most families are not willing to make the sacrifices necessary to send their kids to STM. You typically have to give up other things in order to make it work. My family certainly has had to. (Have your school drop all taxpayer support, start charging the high school students $7500 per year in tuition, and see what happens to your enrollment.) We schedule as many AA schools as will play us - played O'Gorman two years running and they refused to travel to play us so we had to cross the state both times to do it. We open with Washington this year which has six or seven times the enrollment we have. To their credit they do reciprocate and travel out here every other year. O'Gorman dropped us this year so we'll now travel across the state to play West Central. We go to the Corn Palace and Pentagon to play whoever they match us up with. We played up at last summer's USD and Pentagon team camps and played every Sioux Falls AA school at them. I'm told Yankton and Pierre will be on the schedule next year. It can hardly be said that we're ducking anyone.

You did insinuate there was something sinister about Dru Gylten playing for STM. I explained that her family made the decision to put her into STM and approached the school. I then asked you if your coach would have refused to allow her on his team had she wanted to play there. No answer. I also asked you to disclose the school you are affiliated with. Again, no answer. Seem like simple requests.

You're convinced that the only thing behind STM's string of success is unethical recruiting. Not good coaching. Not hard work. Not sacrifice. Just recruiting. Sad that you can't give the girls any credit whatsoever. Truth is that STM will get knocked off the pedestal at some point. Could very well happen this year as there are plenty of great A teams to contend with. When we get beat, watch and see if anyone from STM has to stoop to insulting the team that does it. Won't happen. Our girls will shake their hands, dust themselves off, and start working to get back to where they were.

Once again, what school are you affiliated with, and has no athlete ever transferred there after sixth grade? Surely you can provide that information.


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PostPosted: December 1st, 2017, 6:29 am 
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You are at 275 because you choose to be at 275. Don't make it seem like you are making do with what you were given. Those are the 275 you allowed to enter your building. You kick the snot out of other schools of 275, keep in mind the other schools' 275 include kids with special needs and whatever the community has to offer them. You get to pick and choose who gets in. You got money? C'mon in. You got athletic ability, c'mon in. You are really smart, c'mon in. You are in a wheel chair, can't speak, and require a full time aide...I think the public school would be a better option for you. We are full. I respect the fact that STM will play anybody, anytime, anywhere but please don't sugar coat the exclusivity of a private school. We get it. You think you are better than us.


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PostPosted: December 1st, 2017, 11:55 am 
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Axel wrote:
gruper19 wrote:
C'mon man, I didn't say half of the stuff you accused me of. You're getting us all mixed together. I'm going to leave it at this. Championships bring scrutiny. You draw from a population of around 80,000. You could get away with a 8 person rotation. You don't play in the highest class in the state. Play AA and a great deal of this would go away. A lot of other kids work hard and make sacrifices.


We have 275 students in high school, no surprise we are an A school. We don't get to cherry pick from 80,000. Simple truth is that most families are not willing to make the sacrifices necessary to send their kids to STM. You typically have to give up other things in order to make it work. My family certainly has had to. (Have your school drop all taxpayer support, start charging the high school students $7500 per year in tuition, and see what happens to your enrollment.) We schedule as many AA schools as will play us - played O'Gorman two years running and they refused to travel to play us so we had to cross the state both times to do it. We open with Washington this year which has six
or seven times the enrollment we have. To their credit they do reciprocate and travel out here every other year. O'Gorman dropped us this year so we'll now travel across the state to play West Central. We go to the Corn Palace and Pentagon to play whoever they match us up with. We played up at last summer's USD and Pentagon team camps and played every Sioux Falls AA school at them. I'm told Yankton and Pierre will be on the schedule next year. It can hardly be said that we're ducking anyone.



You did insinuate there was something sinister about Dru Gylten playing for STM. I explained that her family made the decision to put her into STM and approached the school. I then asked you if your coach would have refused to allow her on his team had she wanted to play there. No answer. I also asked you to disclose the school you are affiliated with. Again, no answer. Seem like simple requests.

You're convinced that the only thing behind STM's string of success is unethical recruiting. Not good coaching. Not hard work. Not sacrifice. Just recruiting. Sad that you can't give the girls any credit whatsoever. Truth is that STM will get knocked off the pedestal at some point. Could very well happen this year as there are plenty of great A teams to contend with. When we get beat, watch and see if anyone from STM has to stoop to insulting the team that does it. Won't happen. Our girls will shake their hands, dust themselves off, and start working to get back to where they were.

Once again, what school are you affiliated with, and has no athlete ever transferred there after sixth grade? Surely you can provide that information.



I have a better idea. I will tell you what school I represent if you can show me where I said that STM recruits. Spoiler alert: you won’t. I stand by what I said. And again, working hard and making sacrifices is not unique to STM.


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PostPosted: December 1st, 2017, 1:06 pm 
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ringthebells wrote:
You are at 275 because you choose to be at 275. Don't make it seem like you are making do with what you were given. Those are the 275 you allowed to enter your building. You kick the snot out of other schools of 275, keep in mind the other schools' 275 include kids with special needs and whatever the community has to offer them. You get to pick and choose who gets in. You got money? C'mon in. You got athletic ability, c'mon in. You are really smart, c'mon in. You are in a wheel chair, can't speak, and require a full time aide...I think the public school would be a better option for you. We are full. I respect the fact that STM will play anybody, anytime, anywhere but please don't sugar coat the exclusivity of a private school. We get it. You think you are better than us.


Wow, the animosity from some of you is disturbing. Must be a burden carrying that around. It's sad you choose to endure that.

Gruper, you obviously brought up Dru Gylten's name as insinuation that she was recruited. Spoiler alert; I won't hold my breath on your disclosing your school. Relax and remain hidden behind your keyboard.

For Ring, I sure don't think we're better than anyone, and if I've given off any such impression I sincerely apologize. I looked back through my posts and was unable to locate any claims of superiority. I've stated before that STM families are like those from any school. We have a few arrogant jackasses, along with some folks who are close to being saints. The majority of us fall somewhere in between. My personal resume includes a degree from Wall HS, and I worked my way through a state university as that was all I could afford, so I probably fail to qualify for blue blood status. My own kids have graduated from both STM and Central, so I've seen both sides of the fence and understand that neither is perfect. I suspect you'd be a little surprised at the income level, or lack thereof, of many STM families. Yes, we have some affluent families, as does any school, but for most of us it's not a lot of fun to make those tuition payments. Some might give up a bigger home, drive an older vehicle, or pass up on some vacations in order to keep their kids there. I'm not asking for sympathy, merely presenting a fact. There is some financial aid available from the diocese for families whose income just can't make it work, but not much. And no, we can't afford to offer some of the special needs programs because we don't lift one red cent out of taxpayers' pockets to do so. I don't see an elevator for handicapped access in our immediate future as there just isn't money for one. Same reason we have the smallest gym in the conference, the worst football field, a school weight room cluttered with donated NordicTrac junk, substandard music and theatre facilities, and no track. Same reason we have but two or three bus trips in the basketball budget this season - the parents drive their kids to nearly every game. Same reason we have to pay additional fees for every activity our kids are involved in. Our teachers earn less than those in public schools and receive no health insurance. Yea, we're truly a bunch of mega-wealthy elitists.

You insinuate that we're somehow indifferent to those in need, which is way off the mark. Our high school kids compete for the thirty spots on an annual mission trip, then work fundraisers year round in order to go to Jamaica or Honduras for ten days each spring to sleep in a shack and feed disabled orphans there, and the school collects and sends literally tons of food to the needy each year. Every student has to perform local community service hours. We're far from perfect, and no better than any public school families and students, but we're hardly the cold-hearted bastards you would portray us as.

I'm a little curious how our enrollment can remain at 275 when we spend so much time recruiting? For that to happen the school would have to kick out a theatre kid for every new sports star it signed. For what it's worth, the high school facility is currently close to being maxed out - I don't think we can increase enrollment much more without some significant construction and I doubt there is any funding for that. I believe I've heard that three hundred students is our current limit. We haven't always been at 275, our numbers have grown steadily over the years, but we're still a ways away from being among the largest A schools.

It's a stretch to claim we "kick the snot" out of the all the teams we play. If your accusations were true we'd be winning championships in every sport every year. We've never won a football title. Been a few years since boy's basketball won. Who among you complains about our wrestling program? Girls basketball has definitely had recent success, but might that have to do with Kandolin and Freidel being talented coaches? Could Scott Benson's expertise as a strength coach be a factor, or that our girls are in his weight room very early on mornings when many others are still in bed? Could it be that many of our girls travel all spring and summer to Minneapolis and Sioux Falls for AAU opportunities that don't exist here? Could it be due to the fact that we happened to have a talented group of kids for a number of years, and have established a tradition that they don't want to give up? No, the only reason our girls have had success is because we cherry-pick and recruit, and treat them to unlimited privileges while at the same time keeping a foot on the neck of the downtrodden.

I suppose it's understandable why STM detractors decline to identify the schools they're affiliated with, but it sure would be interesting to know which programs refuse to accept transfers past the sixth grade. Also, someone stated that scrutiny comes with championships, yet I've not seen any posts about Madison, Washington, or other winning programs doing anything underhanded. Must be something else driving all that bitterness toward STM.....

Back on topic, there's no shortage of A teams who will give us all we can handle this year, and we'll likely lose some games as we play a pretty salty schedule. I doubt many expect us to get by Washington in next Friday's opener. We'll need some luck to make it back to the state tournament, but the girls will give it their best shot, just like those from every other school. Looking forward to an exciting season of basketball.


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PostPosted: December 1st, 2017, 3:36 pm 
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I never said STM did anything underhanded, nor did I mention recruiting. I could care less about recruiting. Build a program and they will come. I don't like when private schools make a big deal about being smaller than an opponent. There is a reason you are smaller, it's a choice. You have chosen to exclude. Accept anybody that wants to attend and I will feel differently. Yes, you can't afford the kid in a wheelchair, maybe you should cut sports to accomodate him. If you cut sports/activities though, how can you attract the best and brightest in the area? The solution is to exclude those with disabilities and cater to the well-to-do and those who can give their time and talent in exchange for tuition.


Your opponent probably understands you and how hard you have worked better than anyone. Your opponent is not your enemy that needs to be hated or humiliated. Celebrate with your teammates, not against your opponents. A worthy opponent is necessary for us to be tested and to reach our best. Without an opponent, there is no competition.


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PostPosted: December 1st, 2017, 7:11 pm 
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Ring the Bells....... I used to like you.
As the parent of two special needs kids and the legal guardian of a severely special needs kid, I am offended at your insinuation that the private schools stick up their noses at them. Some of the most kind, compassionate, giving, caring people I know who reach out to special needs children are from the private schools.
You need to study economics...... the power of the government purse is much, much bigger than what churches have available.
You want to know what a RICH school looks like? Brandon Valley!!! Which, I gather is your school.
Next time you get the urge to call O'Gorman snooty, go look at its secondary gym.... and think about BV's ridiculous number of shiny full size gymnasiums.


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PostPosted: December 2nd, 2017, 7:09 pm 
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ringthebells wrote:
I never said STM did anything underhanded, nor did I mention recruiting. I could care less about recruiting. Build a program and they will come. I don't like when private schools make a big deal about being smaller than an opponent. There is a reason you are smaller, it's a choice. You have chosen to exclude. Accept anybody that wants to attend and I will feel differently. Yes, you can't afford the kid in a wheelchair, maybe you should cut sports to accomodate him. If you cut sports/activities though, how can you attract the best and brightest in the area? The solution is to exclude those with disabilities and cater to the well-to-do and those who can give their time and talent in exchange for tuition.



"There is a reason you are smaller, it's a choice." - I think Aberdeen Christian, Great Plains Lutheran, Sunshine Bible Academy, James Valley Christian, Dell Rapids St. Mary, Mitchell Christian, Freeman Academy, Dakota Christian, Lutheran HS of Sioux Falls, and Black Hills Lutheran would all choose to be bigger. As to excluding, yes, they exclude those who cannot pay the tuition and do not have the same/similar religious beliefs. While some with disabilities are not able to attend these schools it is not because the school does not want them, it is because the school cannot fully accommodate the student and it would be a disservice to the student to have them attend the school. That said, there are many kids with learning disabilities in private schools but some disabilities are much more expensive to accommodate. Public schools have the same problem with some disabilities, that is why there is a school for the blind.


As for Basketball how do you feel about boys and girls starting at the same time?

Would anybody like to see class B and A have their state in the same city like volleyball? or both boys and girls from a class hold state in the same city at the same time?

I personally would like to lengthen state so teams do not have to play 3 games in 3 days.


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PostPosted: December 3rd, 2017, 10:00 am 
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MachOne wrote:
Ring the Bells....... I used to like you.
As the parent of two special needs kids and the legal guardian of a severely special needs kid, I am offended at your insinuation that the private schools stick up their noses at them. Some of the most kind, compassionate, giving, caring people I know who reach out to special needs children are from the private schools.
You need to study economics...... the power of the government purse is much, much bigger than what churches have available.
You want to know what a RICH school looks like? Brandon Valley!!! Which, I gather is your school.
Next time you get the urge to call O'Gorman snooty, go look at its secondary gym.... and think about BV's ridiculous number of shiny full size gymnasiums.


Have you been to an O'G home football game in the last few years? Before you explain how Orthopedic Institute paid for it, keep in mind that that means O'G solicited donations for a football field versus soliciting donations for all of the kids they have encouraged to go to the public schools. Why is that? Why would they rather have an investment in a glitzy new football field than take care of the poor and handicapped? Would it have anything to do with success on the field is a better selling point to the next generation of tuition payers than children in need?

This may sound hypocritical, but I am glad the private schools encourage the kids with severe disabilities to attend public schools. It is better for the kids and makes economical sense to not have the same services in multiple places. However, by excluding those in need, you are only taking the cream of the academic/athletic crop. To follow that up with comments about the small size irritates me to no end.


Your opponent probably understands you and how hard you have worked better than anyone. Your opponent is not your enemy that needs to be hated or humiliated. Celebrate with your teammates, not against your opponents. A worthy opponent is necessary for us to be tested and to reach our best. Without an opponent, there is no competition.


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PostPosted: December 6th, 2017, 12:02 pm 
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Here's an analogy that best fits my feelings on living in an open enrollment environment. The Golden State Warriors were never a team that I cheered against. They weren't my team but I had no ill feelings towards them at all and enjoyed watching them play. They had the best team in the NBA. Coming off the best regular season record ever. And they add Kevin Durant. It was all KD's idea. He wanted to win a championship and was afraid he wouldn't if he stayed at OKC. He was afraid he couldn't beat the very team that stood in his way. The Golden State Warriors really did nothing wrong. They were practically unbeatable before and even more so today. But because of this, now I cheer against the Golden State Warriors. I hope they don't win anymore championships. I pretty much hope they lose every time they take the floor. I am sure they out work other teams in practice and have great coaching. They are all probably really nice people too. As well as their fans. But I still don't want to see them win.

In high school basketball it takes one kid to tip the scales. And he/she doesn't even have to be a KD. But if I know they transferred to a specific school so that they could play a sport with certain people instead of against them, and they help contribute to the demise of their former classmates. Then I'm sorry but now you are on my "cheer against list". It is centered on the particular individual but the team gets caught up in it as well. It's just my nature I'm afraid. It's not a very long list. It changes from year to year. But I most definitely have one. If this offends you, I am not going to apologize for it.

I would like to point out to you Axel, specifically, that nowhere will you find the "R" word in my post. No names of high schoolers either.


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