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PostPosted: September 22nd, 2017, 6:49 am 
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I was searching for something and ran across a controversy about whether the best college team could beat the worst NFL team. Consensus was no.

Then I found the same question posed about high school and college. That one I found more interesting and less definitive. Half the people polled said yes. I do too.
College athletes have the advantage over HS kids because of their maturity. They have attained full growth. Also have more experience. Advantage college. However a lot of colleges have a core of players that were subs on their HS team or were starters on inferior HS teams. Some high schools (not in SD of course) are replete with D1 quality recruits. And the coaching staff at that high school might even exceed the quality of a poor college. Could IMG Academy beat a Division 1 doormat? Tell you the truth - would love to see the game. We must remember that the best team does not always win a sporting event. How does a college doormat rise up and beat a ranked team?

Then I started wondering how South Dakota football stacks up against the rest of the nation. MaxPreps actually tries to rank teams nationally (good luck with that). Sioux Falls Washington is #1 in South Dakota and only 1005 in the nation. And this year's SFW team may be the best South Dakota has ever produced (another great topic for discussion). Madison is #2 and 2070 in the country.

And the most intriguing question to me is how the football players of today would stack up against those of yesteryear. We know that players are bigger today. Are they also more athletic? Faster. Higher vertical jump, etc? Could the Madison team that was co-champs of the ESD in 1965 beat the state champ Bulldogs of 2016? I'd love to see a game like that, but alas only on video games could that happen. My guess is that the modern kids would prove to be too much.


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PostPosted: November 13th, 2017, 9:54 am 
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TennesseeHusker wrote:
I was searching for something and ran across a controversy about whether the best college team could beat the worst NFL team. Consensus was no.

Then I found the same question posed about high school and college. That one I found more interesting and less definitive. Half the people polled said yes. I do too.
College athletes have the advantage over HS kids because of their maturity. They have attained full growth. Also have more experience. Advantage college. However a lot of colleges have a core of players that were subs on their HS team or were starters on inferior HS teams. Some high schools (not in SD of course) are replete with D1 quality recruits. And the coaching staff at that high school might even exceed the quality of a poor college. Could IMG Academy beat a Division 1 doormat? Tell you the truth - would love to see the game. We must remember that the best team does not always win a sporting event. How does a college doormat rise up and beat a ranked team?

Then I started wondering how South Dakota football stacks up against the rest of the nation. MaxPreps actually tries to rank teams nationally (good luck with that). Sioux Falls Washington is #1 in South Dakota and only 1005 in the nation. And this year's SFW team may be the best South Dakota has ever produced (another great topic for discussion). Madison is #2 and 2070 in the country.

And the most intriguing question to me is how the football players of today would stack up against those of yesteryear. We know that players are bigger today. Are they also more athletic? Faster. Higher vertical jump, etc? Could the Madison team that was co-champs of the ESD in 1965 beat the state champ Bulldogs of 2016? I'd love to see a game like that, but alas only on video games could that happen. My guess is that the modern kids would prove to be too much.

*******************************
I've wondered that as well. In my opinion, there are HS teams that could beat DSU, DWU, Presentation.... I may be wrong, but like you said.... There are a couple teams at the HS level that turn down D2 (and other) offers and decide not play in college, and the college teams I mentioned are loaded with subs from HS teams in SD because they just want a roster, and the kids want to be "college athletes".


hankb (these are my opinions, and the only facts stated are that I wrote them unless otherwise specified)


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PostPosted: November 13th, 2017, 10:11 am 
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hankb wrote:
TennesseeHusker wrote:
I was searching for something and ran across a controversy about whether the best college team could beat the worst NFL team. Consensus was no.

Then I found the same question posed about high school and college. That one I found more interesting and less definitive. Half the people polled said yes. I do too.
College athletes have the advantage over HS kids because of their maturity. They have attained full growth. Also have more experience. Advantage college. However a lot of colleges have a core of players that were subs on their HS team or were starters on inferior HS teams. Some high schools (not in SD of course) are replete with D1 quality recruits. And the coaching staff at that high school might even exceed the quality of a poor college. Could IMG Academy beat a Division 1 doormat? Tell you the truth - would love to see the game. We must remember that the best team does not always win a sporting event. How does a college doormat rise up and beat a ranked team?

Then I started wondering how South Dakota football stacks up against the rest of the nation. MaxPreps actually tries to rank teams nationally (good luck with that). Sioux Falls Washington is #1 in South Dakota and only 1005 in the nation. And this year's SFW team may be the best South Dakota has ever produced (another great topic for discussion). Madison is #2 and 2070 in the country.

And the most intriguing question to me is how the football players of today would stack up against those of yesteryear. We know that players are bigger today. Are they also more athletic? Faster. Higher vertical jump, etc? Could the Madison team that was co-champs of the ESD in 1965 beat the state champ Bulldogs of 2016? I'd love to see a game like that, but alas only on video games could that happen. My guess is that the modern kids would prove to be too much.

*******************************
I've wondered that as well. In my opinion, there are HS teams that could beat DSU, DWU, Presentation.... I may be wrong, but like you said.... There are a couple teams at the HS level that turn down D2 (and other) offers and decide not play in college, and the college teams I mentioned are loaded with subs from HS teams in SD because they just want a roster, and the kids want to be "college athletes".

A high school team from SD? Not a chance they beat one of those colleges you listed. Also, not a chance an Alabama would beat the worst NFL team.


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PostPosted: November 13th, 2017, 10:43 am 
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Jacks Sports wrote:
hankb wrote:
TennesseeHusker wrote:
I was searching for something and ran across a controversy about whether the best college team could beat the worst NFL team. Consensus was no.

Then I found the same question posed about high school and college. That one I found more interesting and less definitive. Half the people polled said yes. I do too.
College athletes have the advantage over HS kids because of their maturity. They have attained full growth. Also have more experience. Advantage college. However a lot of colleges have a core of players that were subs on their HS team or were starters on inferior HS teams. Some high schools (not in SD of course) are replete with D1 quality recruits. And the coaching staff at that high school might even exceed the quality of a poor college. Could IMG Academy beat a Division 1 doormat? Tell you the truth - would love to see the game. We must remember that the best team does not always win a sporting event. How does a college doormat rise up and beat a ranked team?

Then I started wondering how South Dakota football stacks up against the rest of the nation. MaxPreps actually tries to rank teams nationally (good luck with that). Sioux Falls Washington is #1 in South Dakota and only 1005 in the nation. And this year's SFW team may be the best South Dakota has ever produced (another great topic for discussion). Madison is #2 and 2070 in the country.

And the most intriguing question to me is how the football players of today would stack up against those of yesteryear. We know that players are bigger today. Are they also more athletic? Faster. Higher vertical jump, etc? Could the Madison team that was co-champs of the ESD in 1965 beat the state champ Bulldogs of 2016? I'd love to see a game like that, but alas only on video games could that happen. My guess is that the modern kids would prove to be too much.

*******************************
I've wondered that as well. In my opinion, there are HS teams that could beat DSU, DWU, Presentation.... I may be wrong, but like you said.... There are a couple teams at the HS level that turn down D2 (and other) offers and decide not play in college, and the college teams I mentioned are loaded with subs from HS teams in SD because they just want a roster, and the kids want to be "college athletes".

A high school team from SD? Not a chance they beat one of those colleges you listed. Also, not a chance an Alabama would beat the worst NFL team.

*******************
Not sure on the SD HS team beating one of the teams listed. I agree on the Alabama vs the NFL, but that's a totally different animal. The NFL picks the best college players in the nation each year to represent their league. DSU, DWU, and Presentation take what they can get for a roster. Very few of their players played AAA, or AA football even in SD. Some of them watched from the sidelines, but if they were "that good" in HS, they typically would've played somewhere else. There are more good athletes at each of the SF schools than any of those colleges mentioned. I think they'd "have a chance".


hankb (these are my opinions, and the only facts stated are that I wrote them unless otherwise specified)


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PostPosted: November 14th, 2017, 8:28 am 
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Time out. The NAIA schools don't necessarily "take what they can get" to fill their rosters. To compete at the NAIA level, a player needs to be around the 94th or 95th percentile among their high school peers, based on the stats I've seen from various recruiting services. Only five or six percent of high school athletes are talented enough to play at any collegiate level. In football, D1 teams take the top 1.5 percent, D2 the next couple of percent, and the balance to NAIA or D3 schools.) I doubt there are many former high school subs starting for DSU, Presentation, or DWU, and I would guess there are plenty of former South Dakota AA and AAA athletes that can be found playing in the NAIA or D3 ranks. It's not as if playing for an AA or AAA school is a guaranteed ticket to a D1 scholarship. The insinuation that any kid who "wants to be a college athlete" being able to play for an NAIA school is a bit of an insult to some talented kids who have worked their way onto collegiate teams.

I can't see any SD high school team staying on the field with any of the three South Dakota NAIA schools listed.


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PostPosted: November 14th, 2017, 8:41 am 
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A review of the Presentation, DWU, and DSU rosters shows a total of around thirty-five former South Dakota AA and AAA athletes currently playing on those three teams.


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PostPosted: November 14th, 2017, 11:33 am 
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*******************************
I've wondered that as well. In my opinion, there are HS teams that could beat DSU, DWU, Presentation.... I may be wrong, but like you said.... There are a couple teams at the HS level that turn down D2 (and other) offers and decide not play in college, and the college teams I mentioned are loaded with subs from HS teams in SD because they just want a roster, and the kids want to be "college athletes".[/quote]
*******************
Not sure on the SD HS team beating one of the teams listed. I agree on the Alabama vs the NFL, but that's a totally different animal. The NFL picks the best college players in the nation each year to represent their league. DSU, DWU, and Presentation take what they can get for a roster. Very few of their players played AAA, or AA football even in SD. Some of them watched from the sidelines, but if they were "that good" in HS, they typically would've played somewhere else. There are more good athletes at each of the SF schools than any of those colleges mentioned. I think they'd "have a chance".[/quote]
So just because they didn't play AAA or AA means they are not athletic enough? They do not just take what they can get on their rosters. I know for a fact there are kids that had offers to play other places, but chose one of those schools. There is 0 chance a high school team, even Washington, beats ones of those teams listed. SO when USF was NAIA were they just filling there roster? Look at who is starting for these teams, not just who is on the roster. Kids go to these schools cause they want to try and play, but never do. The starters at these schools were recruited to play elsewhere also.


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PostPosted: November 14th, 2017, 1:26 pm 
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I agree with Axel....Just for a point, DWU has 2 of the last 3 elite 45 captains....


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PostPosted: November 14th, 2017, 1:48 pm 
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Jacks Sports wrote:
*******************************
I've wondered that as well. In my opinion, there are HS teams that could beat DSU, DWU, Presentation.... I may be wrong, but like you said.... There are a couple teams at the HS level that turn down D2 (and other) offers and decide not play in college, and the college teams I mentioned are loaded with subs from HS teams in SD because they just want a roster, and the kids want to be "college athletes".

*******************
Not sure on the SD HS team beating one of the teams listed. I agree on the Alabama vs the NFL, but that's a totally different animal. The NFL picks the best college players in the nation each year to represent their league. DSU, DWU, and Presentation take what they can get for a roster. Very few of their players played AAA, or AA football even in SD. Some of them watched from the sidelines, but if they were "that good" in HS, they typically would've played somewhere else. There are more good athletes at each of the SF schools than any of those colleges mentioned. I think they'd "have a chance".[/quote]
So just because they didn't play AAA or AA means they are not athletic enough? They do not just take what they can get on their rosters. I know for a fact there are kids that had offers to play other places, but chose one of those schools. There is 0 chance a high school team, even Washington, beats ones of those teams listed. SO when USF was NAIA were they just filling there roster? Look at who is starting for these teams, not just who is on the roster. Kids go to these schools cause they want to try and play, but never do. The starters at these schools were recruited to play elsewhere also.[/quote]
**************************************
I used those three as examples because they are here in SD, people know them, and none of them are very good at football. I'm not saying "Any NAIA school, or USF when it was NAIA", I'm saying DSU, Presentation, or DWU. If you think these teams are "loaded with talent, and full of kids who passed on D1 and D2 offers, I think you are crazy! Kids go to these schools for several reasons, but one of the biggest reasons is that they will be able to play, or make the team. I also didn't say that any kid could play anywhere they wanted. That being said, I do believe that if a kid wants to play football, and they were on a high school team, they can usually find a school that will take them on their team. They probably can't be selective on where they want to go, and have to go to the team that will let them be on the team. They may never make the traveling roster, but when it's all over.... They can say they "played" college football.


hankb (these are my opinions, and the only facts stated are that I wrote them unless otherwise specified)


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PostPosted: November 14th, 2017, 4:11 pm 
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You're still insisting that any high school football player will be able to play at Dakota Wesleyan / Dak State / Presentation. That's just not true. Again, you'd be a rare exception or one hell of a late bloomer to be able to earn a starting spot at any of those schools if you weren't a legitimate star on your high school team.

We also heard that "very few" players at those three schools came from South Dakota AA and AAA schools, when their rosters clearly prove otherwise. The Sioux Falls schools have good programs, but they don't have complete rosters of better athletes than do those NAIA schools, all of which can boast of some very talented players.

Kids go to schools for a variety of reasons; academic programs, geography, family tradition among them. I doubt that "being able to make the team" ranks very high on that list, and the commitment level to play at NAIA or D3 is pretty high for anyone participating solely to be able to later brag they played college ball. Nobody has claimed that those college programs "are full of kids who passed on D1 or D2 offers", but that's far more likely than a high-school sub seeing consistent playing time at any of them. (I'm pretty sure some former Madison stars currently playing for Dak State did turn down FCS offers, and they sure as hell qualify as talented.)

Hank, you must have been a Heisman candidate back in the day to so casually dismiss the players from those three programs as you do. Care to share your personal credentials?


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PostPosted: November 14th, 2017, 5:47 pm 
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Having seen both DSU and DWU play on different occasions, and seeing Washington who most people say is the best team in the state play a couple different times. I would take both DSU and DWU in that matchup and I don't think it would be close at all.


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PostPosted: November 15th, 2017, 9:27 am 
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Axel wrote:
You're still insisting that any high school football player will be able to play at Dakota Wesleyan / Dak State / Presentation. That's just not true. Again, you'd be a rare exception or one hell of a late bloomer to be able to earn a starting spot at any of those schools if you weren't a legitimate star on your high school team.

We also heard that "very few" players at those three schools came from South Dakota AA and AAA schools, when their rosters clearly prove otherwise. The Sioux Falls schools have good programs, but they don't have complete rosters of better athletes than do those NAIA schools, all of which can boast of some very talented players.

Kids go to schools for a variety of reasons; academic programs, geography, family tradition among them. I doubt that "being able to make the team" ranks very high on that list, and the commitment level to play at NAIA or D3 is pretty high for anyone participating solely to be able to later brag they played college ball. Nobody has claimed that those college programs "are full of kids who passed on D1 or D2 offers", but that's far more likely than a high-school sub seeing consistent playing time at any of them. (I'm pretty sure some former Madison stars currently playing for Dak State did turn down FCS offers, and they sure as hell qualify as talented.)

Hank, you must have been a Heisman candidate back in the day to so casually dismiss the players from those three programs as you do. Care to share your personal credentials?

*****************************************************

My credentials? Not sure where you are reading half of what you are saying I said. Maybe you should take a literacy test Axel....
I didn't say that any high school player would be able to "play" at DSU, DWU, or Presentation. There is a difference between being able to say you're on the team, and actually playing in the games. There are kids on the rosters that finish their "college seasons", without ever stepping on the field. The coaches meet with them and try to be honest with them, letting them know that they'll never play. Many of them quit after a year or two. Some don't. They would be considered "on the team", or a "college football player". Haven't you ever seen or been on a team where there are kids who only get to practice because they're not good enough to play in games, but they can be on scout squad or practice team?
I didn't say that there were no AA or AAA players on those teams.
I didn't say that there were no good/talented players on those teams
I never said a kid that was a sub on an AA or AAA team would start or see significant playing time with any one of those teams. I said they could be on the team, because teams need players to fill rosters. Go do some research and see how many kids were actually cut from all three of those teams combined in the last 5 years. Again, not saying that all the kids start, play, or even make the travel roster. Just on the team.

Maybe you played at one of those schools, or your kids did. Maybe you were one of the guys who never got to play because you weren't good enough, but stayed on the team because you wanted to be a "college football player". I'm not trying to offend you, or those schools, I'm just saying this....
I don't think those three teams are very good at football.
I think they have some good players, but I don't think they are loaded with talent.
I think kids that aren't very good at football can be on those teams (not necessarily a regular player or starter), because I don't think there are kids lining up to play at any one of them.
Kids play football in college for a variety of reasons. There are some kids who just want to be a part of a team, and are willing to go through the grind, and take pride in being a part of it. Even some who don't get to play, but are "on the team".
I agree that there are kids on those three teams that passed on other opportunities. Who know why they passed? There are also kids on those teams who have no other option.
There are many very good high school football players/athletes that pass on opportunities play college sports at all.
I don't really care if their from Madison, Sioux Valley, Sioux Falls, Mitchell.... Kids pass on certain opportunities for many different reasons. I don't really care how many talented kids from Madison passed on opportunities with bigger schools to play at DSU. Probably happens every year, and it happens in bigger schools more frequently by virtue of the numbers game.


hankb (these are my opinions, and the only facts stated are that I wrote them unless otherwise specified)


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PostPosted: November 15th, 2017, 10:11 am 
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Quote:
I don't think those three teams are very good at football.


DSU was ranked #23 in the nation in the final NAIA poll of the year after going 8-3 this year. DWU was ranked #17 to start the year, ranked in each of the past few years, and have been over .500 in 7 straight seasons playing in the tough GPAC. Definitely sounds like not very good football teams to me...get a clue.


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PostPosted: November 15th, 2017, 11:52 am 
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yessir wrote:
Quote:
I don't think those three teams are very good at football.


DSU was ranked #23 in the nation in the final NAIA poll of the year after going 8-3 this year. DWU was ranked #17 to start the year, ranked in each of the past few years, and have been over .500 in 7 straight seasons playing in the tough GPAC. Definitely sounds like not very good football teams to me...get a clue.

**************************************
Watch their games. They are all in the playoffs, correct? .500 average = not great team.... Get a clue!!!!!


hankb (these are my opinions, and the only facts stated are that I wrote them unless otherwise specified)


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PostPosted: November 15th, 2017, 4:10 pm 
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I can tell you definitively that even the NAIA schools here in SD (DSU, DWU, and Presentation) are able to recruit players who could under different circumstances have played elsewhere. In fact there is a player at DSU right now in his second year starting who when he was a sophomore was being looked at by Iowa and Iowa State. He was recruited all through high school by virtually every school in South Dakota. However he decided to work for two years after high school and ended up at DSU. As has already been mentioned two of the past three Elite 45 captains are playing NAIA. As for the question at hand I don't believe there are any high school teams in South Dakota who could beat any of the collegiate teams in South Dakota (or likely in the nation). Now if we want to talk IMG Academy where they have 2-5 star recruits, 10-4 star recruits, and another 10 rated recruits, that is a different story. I read an article that said if a college team signed all of their seniors it would be the #5 recruiting class in the country. I am willing to bet that team could not only beat our NAIA schools but also potentially our DII schools in South Dakota.


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PostPosted: November 15th, 2017, 7:36 pm 
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Heisman Hank;

Here's a few examples of what you did indeed say;

"DSU, DWU, and Presentation take what they can get for a roster"
"loaded with subs from HS teams in SD because they just want a roster"
"very few of their players played AAA or AA football even in SD"
"There are more good athletes at each of the SF schools than any of the colleges mentioned"
"if a kid is that good in high school, he typically would've played somewhere else"

For the record, I didn't play for any of those three schools, although I sure wouldn't be ashamed to admit that I had.

I don't need to take a literacy test to see that your posts are condescending and arrogant. I'll ask again, what year was it that you starred for Notre Dame?


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PostPosted: November 15th, 2017, 10:13 pm 
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Not sure on the SD HS team beating one of the teams listed. I agree on the Alabama vs the NFL, but that's a totally different animal. The NFL picks the best college players in the nation each year to represent their league. DSU, DWU, and Presentation take what they can get for a roster. Very few of their players played AAA, or AA football even in SD. Some of them watched from the sidelines, but if they were "that good" in HS, they typically would've played somewhere else. There are more good athletes at each of the SF schools than any of those colleges mentioned. I think they'd "have a chance".[/quote]

The AAA player of the year last year plays at DSU and he didn't play this year... Even the AAA and AA players don't automatically play right away.


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PostPosted: November 15th, 2017, 11:13 pm 
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"There are more good athletes at each of the SF schools than any of the colleges mentioned"

A factor that Hank seems to ignore while oggling over the superiority of a SF athlete, is strength and experience. All the schools mentioned have starters who have 2-4 years of college weight training and practice over the SF HS player. The NAIA football player goes through the same type workouts and practice time that the NCAA teams do. As the "Captain" put it the last time this subject came up, "they are full grown men, going up against boys." There are instances where a "fridge full of milk" Farniok (the Mom said they go thru a lot of milk) would hold his own, or a Nate Gerry, burn somebody, but they are not the whole team. We're talking game - college team vs. hs team.

"loaded with subs from HS teams in SD because they just want a roster"

For every roster filler, there a 2 players legitimately competing for a spot. You need to consider that the starters on these teams come from good programs nation-wide or were pretty good players in high school themselves. I can guarentee you that the guys SF HS would be competing against, are not the roster filler - wear the fb coat downtown - to impress the ladies type. They are dedicated, love the game, BTDT competitors.

7 Touchdowns!


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PostPosted: November 16th, 2017, 10:29 pm 
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Hank, don't be shy! Please share with us where you played your college ball.


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